Legislature(1999 - 2000)

09/20/1999 09:10 AM Senate PRI

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
  COMMISSION ON PRIVATIZATION DELIVERY OF GOVERNMENT SERVICES                                                                   
                       Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                        
                       September 20, 1999                                                                                       
                           9:10 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Cowdery, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Ward, Co-Chair                                                                                                          
Bill Allen, Former Mayor of Fairbanks                                                                                           
Tom Fink, Former Mayor of Anchorage                                                                                             
Mike Harper, President, Kuskokwim Corporation,                                                                                  
Kathryn Thomas, Former Chair of Alaska State Chamber of Commerce                                                                
George Wuerch, Alaska Municipal League                                                                                          
Don Valesko, Business Manger of Public Employees Local 71                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Brice                                                                                                            
Senator Adams                                                                                                                   
William Prosser, Chairman of the Board - Cook Inlet Region, Inc.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Introduction of new commissioner, Mike Harper                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Presentation:  Competitive Sourcing & Privatization in the Federal                                                              
Government                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
See Commission on Privatization minutes dated 7/20/99 and                                                                       
8/16/99.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL MICHAEL SANDBERG, Director of Logistics, US Army, Alaska                                                                
MARK BRYANT, Chief of Management Services, USARAK                                                                               
MAJOR BRIAN HILFERTY, Public Affairs Officer, USARAK                                                                            
GREGORY ENDSLEY, Deputy Director for the Directorate of Logistics                                                               
JOHN TOENES, Deputy Director for the Directorate of Public Works                                                                
                                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Each of the above provided information on                                                                  
competitive sourcing & Privatization in the Federal Government.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-5, SIDE A                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY called the Commission on Privatization and                                                                     
Delivery of Government Services meeting to order at 9:10 a.m.                                                                   
Members present at the call to order were Representative Cowdery,                                                               
and Senator Ward, and Commissioners Allen, Fink, Wuerch, Thomas,                                                                
and Valesko.  Senator Adams, Representative Brice, and                                                                          
Commissioners Prosser and Sandvik were not present.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY introduced a new commissioner, Mike Harper.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE HARPER, President, Kuskokwim Corporation, informed the                                                                     
committee that the Kuskokwim Corporation is one of the village                                                                  
corporations under the Alaska Native Land Claims Settlement Act.                                                                
He noted that he has some background in business and government.                                                                
He expressed his pleasure in being able to serve in the state in                                                                
this capacity.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
There was a motion for approval of the minutes from the last two                                                                
meetings.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MARCO PIGNALBERI, Legislative Assistant for Representative Cowdery,                                                             
Alaska State Legislature, noted that the commission's packet should                                                             
include a staff report that would be reviewed at the conclusion of                                                              
the meeting.  Mr. Pignalberi introduced the following special                                                                   
guests:  Colonel Michael Sandberg, Director of Logistics, US Army,                                                              
Alaska (USARAK); Mark Bryant, Chief of Management Services, USARAK;                                                             
Major Brian Hilferty, Public Affairs Officer, USARAK.  He reviewed                                                              
the backgrounds of Colonel Sandberg and Mr. Bryant.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL MICHAEL SANDBERG, Director of Logistics, USARAK, introduced                                                             
the committee to Gregory Endsley, Deputy Director for the                                                                       
Directorate of Logistics and John Toenes, Deputy Director for the                                                               
Directorate of Public Works.  He noted that both gentleman are                                                                  
intimately involved in commercial activities studies that are                                                                   
ongoing on the post.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG specified that he and the others were requested to                                                             
discuss what the U.S. Army and the federal government is doing with                                                             
regard to commercial outsourcing and privatization at Fort                                                                      
Richardson.  He clarified that he wasn't present to make any                                                                    
recommendations, although he would be open to general questions.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MARK BRYANT, Chief of Management Services, US Army Alaska,                                                                      
presented a slide presentation which began with an overview of the                                                              
history of competitive sourcing and privatization.  In 1955, the                                                                
Bureau Budget Bulletin indicated the basic fundamental policy of                                                                
the federal government to rely on the commercial sector whenever                                                                
possible.  That was subsequently embodied in the Office of                                                                      
Management and Budget's OMB Circular, A-76, which continues to this                                                             
day.  Of course, the Department of Defense's and the Army's                                                                     
strategy or core responsibility is war fighting.  Therefore,                                                                    
readiness is critical in order to provide the best performance of                                                               
that mission in the field.  To that end, the core processes have                                                                
been identified.  Anything beyond that should be reviewed for                                                                   
potential outsourcing or privatization.  Mr. Bryant noted that this                                                             
program has been referred to as competitive sourcing or commercial                                                              
activities.  He stressed that the program is not outsourcing.  He                                                               
explained that the program is the determination of the location of                                                              
the best value to conduct a particular service or product:  is it                                                               
in-house with the government or outside with a private contractor?                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT informed the committee that there have been 468                                                                      
competitions completed which were A-76 studies.  He specified that                                                              
almost all of their studies today are multi-function studies in                                                                 
which an entire organization and its functions are reviewed.  The                                                               
push for this began in the early 1980s.  In 1987, there was the                                                                 
Nichols Amendment which gave the commander of an installation the                                                               
prerogative to discontinue commercial activities and competitive                                                                
sourcing studies.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD inquired as to the meaning of the reference to 25,305                                                             
positions on the slide.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT clarified that there were 25,305 positions under review.                                                             
He also pointed out that the 28 percent savings were linked to                                                                  
dollars which is a projected amount.  There are reports by the Army                                                             
Audit Agency (AAA) and the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO)                                                                 
which indicate that the actual savings are unknown.  In 1995,                                                                   
Colonel Cohen came out with the Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR)                                                                
which basically discussed how to obtain more dollars for                                                                        
modernization.  The report reviewed competitive sourcing studies                                                                
which were initiated throughout the Department of Defense.  At the                                                              
same time, the anticipated savings have been shifted from                                                                       
sustainment to modernization.  He noted that the Nichols Amendment                                                              
moratorium was lifted in 1995, and therefore allowed the                                                                        
reinvigoration of the competitive sourcing program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT turned to a GAO audit performed in February 1999 which                                                               
is somewhat incomplete.  Out of 53 studies, there was an average                                                                
savings of 42 percent, $528 million.  In the 1970s and the 1980s,                                                               
the government was winning about half the time and private                                                                      
contractors were winning about half the time.  Currently, the                                                                   
private contractors are winning about 60 percent of the time.  He                                                               
noted that of the 53 studies,  18 of those had to rewrite their                                                                 
performance work statements (PWS) after the contract was awarded.                                                               
He informed the commission that 32 competitions were won by the                                                                 
private sector.  Of those 32, four were terminated based on poor                                                                
performance.  He specified that even after a contract is awarded,                                                               
things must be modified and there may be appeals, protest, and poor                                                             
performance.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI inquired as to the meaning behind the term                                                                       
competitions.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT clarified that competitions are studies.  He explained,                                                              
"We developed documentation to tell us what ... particular                                                                      
functions we're going to study ... and how many personnel and                                                                   
material belong to those functions.  ... It's what we term a single                                                             
function or a multi-function."  For example, a single function                                                                  
would be something like snow plowing while a multi-function would                                                               
be snow plowing, grass cutting, facility maintenance, supply,                                                                   
services, and administration.  There are few whole base studies.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD recalled Mr. Bryant's comments regarding the 50-50                                                                
split between the federal government and the private sector in the                                                              
1970s and 1980s.  That breakdown has since leaned more heavily to                                                               
the private sector which Co-Chair Ward interpreted as government                                                                
being less efficient.  He asked if there have been any                                                                          
determinations as to why that turn in efficiency.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT commented that Mr. Pignalberi has a copy of the GAO                                                                  
report which reviewed those studies.  The GAO report said that                                                                  
there is not enough statistical information to determine why the                                                                
turn to the private sector other than its increase in efficiency.                                                               
He explained that, basically, the private contractor has to beat                                                                
the in-house government work force bid by ten percent or up to $10                                                              
million of the personnel costs.  In other words, if the government                                                              
bids $1 million and the contractor bids $899,000 for the labor                                                                  
portion, all things being equal, the private contractor would win.                                                              
The ten percent is built-in to cover the costs of transitioning the                                                             
work force to the private industry.  The  GAO report also cites a                                                               
12 percent overhead factor which is also inconclusive.  When the                                                                
government determines its bid, 12 percent is added for the                                                                      
overhead.  He believed that whether the overhead is the same as the                                                             
private industry or less could be determined upon the review of                                                                 
some upcoming studies.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT, in response to Mr. Pignalberi, clarified that MEO is                                                                
the acronym for most efficient organization.  The contractor's bid                                                              
is the in-house bid, the government work force bid.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG interjected that there isn't a central database                                                                
which houses how other installation bids were developed so that                                                                 
another base could utilize that information.  He believed that this                                                             
army, governmental coordination is improving which was not the case                                                             
earlier.  Some of these large contractors have means and have                                                                   
determined how to share data in order to produce a better bid.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO asked if the military monitors the contractors                                                             
with regard to requiring the same requirements the government work                                                              
force would be required to follow.  For example, would contractors                                                              
be required to follow the same minority hire and veterans'                                                                      
preference rights and provide health insurance?  He inquired as to                                                              
whether there has been review as to whether contractors are meeting                                                             
the standard of living.  He commented that the standard of living                                                               
for those in Alaska has been decreasing over the last dozen years.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT explained that when there is competition, the private                                                                
contractor must comply with the Fair Labor Standards Act which                                                                  
specifies for the positions in the government the contractor would                                                              
have to pay a certain wage.  Secondly, there is the "right-of-                                                                  
first-refusal."  He explained that if the private contractor wins                                                               
and has to write this in his bid document, the contractor must                                                                  
provide the current government employee the "right-of-first-                                                                    
refusal" over the job he needs to fulfill, so long as the employee                                                              
is qualified and the position is necessary.  With regard to the                                                                 
veterans' preference and other areas mentioned, Mr. Bryant wasn't                                                               
familiar with those nor was he sure if there would be a tax                                                                     
advantage for a private contractor who allows those.  There are                                                                 
many rules and regulations a private contractor must follow.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT turned to competitive sourcing of inherently                                                                         
governmental activities.  There are certain areas that a taxpayer                                                               
would not want the government to contract out, the most fundamental                                                             
of those is combat forces.  He explained that, in general, the                                                                  
studies have two time limits which must be followed.  The OMB                                                                   
Circular A-76 says a single function study must be completed in 18-                                                             
36 months or there must be a report as to why more time is                                                                      
necessary.  Furthermore, Congress doesn't allow funding to complete                                                             
a study.  For a single function study the time is 24 months and for                                                             
a multi-function study the time is 48 months.  In response to Co-                                                               
Chair Ward, he stated the aforementioned time lines are the two                                                                 
major ones, but there are others.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT commented that there is somewhat of a misunderstanding                                                               
of competitive sourcing and privatization.  He explained that                                                                   
competitive sourcing is when the government retains ownership and                                                               
control of the operation.  That control would be maintained through                                                             
oversight of contractor performance or the government running the                                                               
operation.  If the government does it, in-house personnel or                                                                    
another government service will be utilized.  He turned to                                                                      
privatization in which the government decides to sell the asset and                                                             
take a service from that point forward.  For example, utilities at                                                              
Fort Richards as well as the Department of Defense are being                                                                    
reviewed for such.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT turned to the determination of the core government in                                                                
nature functions (GIM); what is inherently governmental?  The                                                                   
Office of the Secretary of Defense provides the criteria and                                                                    
definitions regarding the determination of what is inherently                                                                   
governmental and what can be competitive.  He highlighted the                                                                   
following examples of what federal functions can be studied:  food                                                              
services, security, transportation, and management support                                                                      
services.  Those areas that can't be studied are those inherently                                                               
governmental which he defined as follows: "...if it has to make a                                                               
decision that the commits the government to a particular course of                                                              
action, that is inherently governmental."  He provided the                                                                      
following examples of inherently governmental activities:                                                                       
intelligence, public affairs, and inspection contracting.  Mr.                                                                  
Bryant said they are always reviewing whether they can do it better                                                             
or if someone else can.  From the Office of the Secretary of                                                                    
Defense's perspective, savings can be spent more on modernization                                                               
versus sustainment.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT acknowledged that A-76 competitions are difficult and                                                                
controversial.  However, the notion that A-76 competitions always                                                               
lead to appeals isn't necessarily true.  For example, of the 53                                                                 
studies previously mentioned, only 10 were appealed with only one                                                               
winning the appeal.  Since 1989, 174 cost comparisons were                                                                      
completed, of which 40 lead to appeals and two appeals had the                                                                  
original decision overturned.  Whether such a record would be                                                                   
maintained in the new revised program will require a few more years                                                             
and the completion of a few more studies.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN inquired as to the time delay caused by an                                                                   
appeal.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT explained that an appeal must be filed within 30 days.                                                               
He believed the appeal must be answered within 60 days.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG interjected that those time lines are in                                                                       
accordance with federal acquisition regulations and procurement                                                                 
laws, not the A-76.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT then turned to the federal employee and union roles.  He                                                             
informed the commission that federal employees, through their                                                                   
union, are involved in all parts of the study.  These employees                                                                 
actually participate in the team developing the PWS.  He said that                                                              
without the employees who actually perform the functions, this                                                                  
process can't be accomplished.  The employees  help document the                                                                
work load, review the performance work statement, and identify                                                                  
areas for improvement.  However, the employees can't be involved in                                                             
the final decision which is ultimately a management decision                                                                    
regarding what the Department of Defense wants to buy.  He noted                                                                
that there is a source election board which formalizes the process                                                              
of evaluation with regard to the contract proposals.  Again, the                                                                
employees would not participate in this area.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD recognized that the employees providing input in the                                                              
study is important and inquired as to how that was facilitated.  He                                                             
asked if there was any opposition.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT said, in general, there wasn't any opposition.  He                                                                   
commented that there is a good relationship with the union.                                                                     
Furthermore, the commanding general is very instructive that the                                                                
employees participate in all meetings.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT continued with the slide presentation and reviewed the                                                               
federal A-76 cost competition process.  There is much preparation                                                               
before the study with regard to the identification of what is under                                                             
review.  By law, what is under review must be announced to                                                                      
Congress.  The largest portion of the preparation is the                                                                        
development of the PWS which determines all the functions that are                                                              
to be purchased.  The PWS goes to the management review team and                                                                
out for solicitation.  The management review team takes what the                                                                
government wants to purchase from the commercial sectors and                                                                    
attempts to develop a management study to streamline it.  He noted                                                              
that the multi-function studies are performed in order to review                                                                
the entire organization, not just the portion to be competitive.                                                                
There is an attempt to streamline the entire organization.  The PWS                                                             
is also given to the procurement director of contracting for                                                                    
solicitation of contract offers.  Furthermore, the AAA performs an                                                              
independent validation and review of the PWS and MEO documents.                                                                 
Those proposals are received and a formalized process is                                                                        
established to evaluate the contract proposals.  The information                                                                
regarding the cost, how it will be performed and processed result                                                               
in a cost comparison form.  The initial decision is made and the                                                                
process automatically moves on to appeals.  A specified amount of                                                               
time is allowed for appeals and those appeals and protests are                                                                  
processed.  If the result is successful, then Congress is notified                                                              
within 30-60 days of the initial decision.  Then it takes about six                                                             
months - a conservative figure - for implementation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY inquired as to the difference between selecting                                                                
the lowest bidder and the best value proposal.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT explained that private industry has the option during                                                                
bidding to inform the government that it can do better than what is                                                             
desired with a little more cost.  That is the consideration of the                                                              
best value.  The least cost is a fixed price in which there is no                                                               
offer to do what is desired any better.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY clarified:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     On the least cost, technically acceptable, it is a price                                                                   
     competition - the lowest cost wins.  Best value, a higher                                                                  
     bid may win because of some things that they're offering                                                                   
     that may exceed the requirements of the contract, but the                                                                  
     government determines that that is in the best interest                                                                    
     of the government to go with that.  ...There is a process                                                                  
     that they go through to get to that determination, but it                                                                  
     all has to be approved by the government, ultimately.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT reiterated that the contractor has to beat the in-house                                                              
proposal on the personnel, manpower costs by at least ten percent                                                               
which was built-in to cover all the transitional costs.  Mr. Bryant                                                             
moved to the milestone requirements or time lines.  He explained                                                                
that single and multi-function studies must be completed within 24                                                              
months.  The Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for                                                                         
Installation Management has a 13-24 month goal.  The Cost and                                                                   
Academic Analysis Agency says that certain sized studies should                                                                 
take between 13-21 months.  He reminded the commission of the                                                                   
congressional and reporting requirements.  He pointed out that AAA                                                              
has performed a review of completed studies and has indicated about                                                             
the time line that is being utilized now.  For large multi-function                                                             
studies, it takes about 33 months for completion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD inquired as to the meaning of the reference to spaces                                                             
on the slide entitled, "Federal A-76 Study Milestone Requirements."                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT explained that the term refers to manpower spaces as                                                                 
opposed to positions.  There may be 100 spaces that the Army                                                                    
authorizes, but only 90 are filled by positions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN inquired as to whether there is a spending cap                                                               
on the fiscal note for the studies.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT answered that there is no spending cap.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN TOENES, Deputy Director for the Directorate of Public Works,                                                               
explained that the only cap related to the federal appropriation                                                                
law is that first line of the slide entitled, "Federal A-76 Study                                                               
Milestone Requirements."  The first line of that slide refers to                                                                
Congress' time requirements for single function and multi-function                                                              
studies.  He specified that appropriated funds may not be spent on                                                              
a single function study the duration of which exceeds 24 months.                                                                
Similarly, on a multi-function study federal appropriated funds                                                                 
can't be used on such a study with a duration of more than 48                                                                   
months.  Mr. Toenes clarified that is the cap on the time limit,                                                                
not on the dollar amount.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN asked if the cost of the study is deducted from                                                              
the appropriations.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI understood Commissioner Allen to be aiming towards                                                               
the question of how these studies are funded.  Are the studies                                                                  
funded in the overall appropriations from Congress or is the cost                                                               
of the study taken out of the overhead?                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT responded that both scenarios are utilized.  He noted                                                                
that consultants are primarily used to perform these studies.                                                                   
However, the Army has realized that it must participate 100 percent                                                             
as well.  Therefore, in-house teams which complete the study have                                                               
been developed.  Now there is a partnership with the consultant and                                                             
the private contractor performing the studies.  He noted that the                                                               
private consultant contractor is funded centrally by the                                                                        
headquarters portion of the Army.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI asked if the congressional appropriation is                                                                      
enumerated as a line item in the budget.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT replied no.  These are Department of Defense management                                                              
prerogatives to spend its resources from some pot of money, what is                                                             
referred to as operations and maintenance of the Army funds.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG interjected that it is important to understand                                                                 
that.  He explained the funds appropriated to support these studies                                                             
through the hiring of contractors have been found to be                                                                         
insufficient, in the Army's case, to complete the study in the time                                                             
frame allotted.  Therefore, each directorate at Fort Richardson                                                                 
that is under study has dedicated many in-house employees to help                                                               
write the PWS.  In the case of Fort Wainwright, there are upwards                                                               
of 20 individuals who occupy between 30-90 percent of their time                                                                
working to write the PWS.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES informed the commission that Army Public Works, which                                                                
involves Fort Richardson and Fort Wainwright, currently has 20                                                                  
full-time management and nonmanagement people developing the PWS.                                                               
Those folks have been moved to a separate building with their own                                                               
database systems due to the secure nature of the PWS.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-5, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
[Tape begins midspeech.]                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES said, "...the completion of funds to complete the Public                                                             
Works Study is going to run about $8 million over about a 38 month                                                              
period."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (COLONEL SANDBERG) commented that that doesn't                                                             
take away from the requirements to complete the normal job.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO understood that there is a 24 month period in                                                              
which to complete the study.  That requirement is from the USARPAC.                                                             
If there is the decision to do a study on a function, and the                                                                   
decision is to contract out the function.  He understood then there                                                             
would be study of that for the 24 month period.  What happens at                                                                
the end of the 24 month period?  For instance, take snow removal                                                                
which would be studied.  He assumed that the snow removal is                                                                    
currently done in-house and now a contractor is awarded a bid to                                                                
perform the snow removal.  At the end of the 24 months, is the                                                                  
contractor done and the function goes back in-house or does the                                                                 
contracting continue on and no study is done beyond that 24 months.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG said he believed there is confusion regarding the                                                              
different contractors.  There is a contractor to help perform the                                                               
study itself.  If the successful bidder is a commercial contractor,                                                             
that's when the contract for snow removal would be awarded to that                                                              
contractor who would then begin performing that particular                                                                      
function.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN asked if at some point there is a performance                                                                
review of the contractor.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT stated that these are the goals by the bosses.  At the                                                               
end of the time, there will be the determination as to whether the                                                              
function will be performed in-house or by private contract.  If a                                                               
private contract is awarded, the contract is normally awarded for                                                               
five years - one year plus four review years.  Each year that                                                                   
contract will come up for review and may be succeeded by four                                                                   
additional years.  He pointed out that government oversight is                                                                  
built into this process.  If the function does go to a contract,                                                                
then the government determines what it actually would cost to                                                                   
continuously review the contract on a daily basis.  The cost of the                                                             
contracting officer's representative (COR) is built into the                                                                    
estimates.  Mr. Bryant indicated agreement that the 24 month                                                                    
requirement is merely study before there is a determination as to                                                               
whether the function will continue in-house or become a private                                                                 
contract.  He noted that the contracting officers are located in                                                                
the Directorate of Contracting.  However, if the Public Works goes                                                              
to contract, the additional people will be hired to represent the                                                               
contracting officer in Public Works in order to daily monitor the                                                               
performance of the contract.  Yearly, the contract would come up                                                                
for review by the entire Directorate of Contracting Staff in order                                                              
to review if the performance is as projected.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT continued with the slide presentation and reviewed the                                                               
key success factors.  He expressed the need to ensure communication                                                             
from the planning stage to the completion of the process.   There                                                               
are no controls on communication, save certain areas that are                                                                   
sensitive to procurement actions.  Staff and employees are involved                                                             
from the beginning and everyone must work as a team.  He noted that                                                             
the union plays a key role on the management study team and are                                                                 
actually a team member.  He reviewed the various methods utilized                                                               
to keep the employees involved in the process and keep                                                                          
communication open.  He restated that current civilians have the                                                                
right-of-first-refusal.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT pointed out that it has been learned that business can't                                                             
be performed as usual.   One must continue to benchmark what the                                                                
best practices are.  He said that USARAK is attempting such in the                                                              
management study.  With regard to performing the study, the best                                                                
people to perform it must be obtained.  He commented on the need                                                                
for training in the A-76 experience as well as continued                                                                        
communication.  Mr. Bryant informed the commission that the four                                                                
largest USARAK organizations are under study:  Directorate of                                                                   
Logistics(DOL), Directorate of Public Works(DPW), Directorate of                                                                
Community Activities(DCA), and Directorate of Plans, Training,                                                                  
Security, & Mobilization(DPTSM).  Those organizations, both the                                                                 
military and civilian  aspects, comprise 78 percent of the nonwar                                                               
fighting installation work force.  He clarified that although those                                                             
organizations are under study, it doesn't mean all those positions                                                              
are being competed.  As stated earlier, multi-function studies are                                                              
performed in order to review the commercial activity as well as the                                                             
inherently governmental activity.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT turned to the slide which illustrated the USARAK's time                                                              
lines.  He noted that the two largest organizations, DOL and DPW,                                                               
take the longest amount of time.  The studies on the DCA and DPTSM                                                              
are being reviewed in order to determine if merely a management                                                                 
study should be performed.  If the management study occurs, then                                                                
there wouldn't be a solicitation although there would be attempts                                                               
to streamline the organizations at all levels.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JOE HENRI, Chair, Privatization Subcommittee on the Department of                                                               
Administration, requested that Mr. Bryant provide a rough estimate                                                              
of how much the most expensive the four studies may cost over the                                                               
next 24 months.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT answered that the DPW study would result in a total in-                                                              
house cost of about $8 million.  He clarified that cost would                                                                   
include the many associated administration things.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD inquired as to the total budget of the function being                                                             
studied.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES informed the commission that the DPW appropriated budget                                                             
for this year is about $150 million.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT specified that the $8 million for the study is for                                                                   
multiple years; it is the total over the course of the study.  The                                                              
maximum time allowed is 48 months.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD surmised then that it would be $2 million per year                                                                
and in total $600 million over a four year period.  Therefore, it                                                               
is a $600 million increment as compared to $8 million for the                                                                   
study.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT returned to the time line slide.  He returned to DCA and                                                             
DPTSM.  He informed the commission that other army organizations                                                                
that tried to compete child development services received no                                                                    
offers.  In that case, the government performs that function                                                                    
cheaper than others.  From a postmortem on that function, he                                                                    
believed that since the government has such standards and doesn't                                                               
have liability insurance costs, no one would compete against those                                                              
functions.  He indicated that a similar situation arose with the                                                                
Director of DCA which is such a mixture of military and civilian                                                                
employees as well as volunteers.  The mixture was such that it                                                                  
couldn't be determined how to break it up and put it back together                                                              
while maintaining efficiency.  Therefore, a management study                                                                    
resulted in order to streamline the functions.  The same result                                                                 
occurred with DPTSM; it wouldn't be a good return on the investment                                                             
to perform a full study on that organization.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT provided an example of the difficulties involved in such                                                             
a process.  He posed a situation in which a contractor was told to                                                              
mow and trim the lawn, as necessary, in order to maintain a good                                                                
appearance.  The contractor was also instructed to water the lawn                                                               
as necessary.  Mr. Bryant stated that more detail is necessary.  He                                                             
presented a slide which gave exact specifications as to the height,                                                             
pH, sprig density, and use of water with a rain correction table.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY commented that the four studies mentioned, with regards                                                             
to competition, are all or nothing.  A contractor can't pick and                                                                
choose portions of a multi-function activity.  The entire activity                                                              
must be bid on and the contractor either wins or looses that                                                                    
contract.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG clarified that in the lawn maintenance example, a                                                              
contractor may be able to perform the function to the                                                                           
specifications better than the government.  However, the contractor                                                             
may not be able to perform the plumbing, heating, road clearing, et                                                             
cetera as efficiently, and therefore the contractor doesn't                                                                     
necessarily win the contract.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER ALLEN asked if there is any encouragement of a joint                                                               
venture.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY said that they don't encourage contractors to bid on                                                                
any part, and therefore it is left to the contractors.  In fact,                                                                
other installations have utilized joint ventures as proposed by the                                                             
contractor.  From the government side, a joint venture could be                                                                 
proposed as well and a subcontractor could be part of the                                                                       
government's, in-house, bid.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD inquired as to how "cherry picking" is avoided.  How                                                              
was the total package to bid on determined.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY clarified that the PWS or contract includes all the                                                                 
functions within the current directorates.  Within DOL, there are                                                               
the Division of Supply and Services which consist of a multitude of                                                             
functions in the various classes of supply.  There are also a                                                                   
variety of service type functions within that division as well.  He                                                             
noted that the DPW is probably three times larger than DOL with                                                                 
regard to the number of functions.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES commented:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     There might be a yet unspoken, overarching question:  why                                                                  
     would normal people performing any of these commercial                                                                     
     activities or functions go through a protracted cost                                                                       
     comparison in order to determine whether they wish to go                                                                   
     contract?  As part of federal appropriation law, which                                                                     
     this portion of it reenacted with each Congress.  In this                                                                  
     current year, Public Law 105262 Section 8104 prescribes                                                                    
     that if more than ten federal civil service people are to                                                                  
     be involved in a decision to contract out commercial                                                                       
     functions, appropriated funds may not be used to do that                                                                   
     unless there is a form of cross comparison.  And that's                                                                    
     what does it.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He posed the following example.  In Canada, absent a treaty,                                                                    
legislation or a labor contract there is no requirement to go                                                                   
through a cost comparison adventure in order to determine whether                                                               
to privatize.  Such would be the case for mayoralties and state                                                                 
governments that aren't bound by the federal appropriation                                                                      
regulation, unless there is a treaty, legislation, or a labor                                                                   
contract requiring privatization initiatives to go through a cost                                                               
comparison.  Mr. Toenes specified that the decision within the                                                                  
defense department to choose to privatize is latent in the                                                                      
executive branch.  When that occurred in the 1950s, Congress                                                                    
legislated under what terms competition would take place.  In                                                                   
reaction to the Congress, the president had the Office of                                                                       
Management and Budget build a set a rules that have resulted in                                                                 
Pamphlet A-76 in its current form.  The A-76 pamphlet was most                                                                  
recently modified in 1966.  Those rules have been approved by the                                                               
appropriations subcommittees over the years.  From those rules, the                                                             
process here was born.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT returned to the slide presentation and said that the                                                                 
source selection authority (SSA) is the Commanding General.  The                                                                
Commanding General will have an entity evaluate the proposals.  He                                                              
indicated that the Source Selection Advisory Council and the Source                                                             
Selection Evaluation Board evaluate the proposals which takes about                                                             
six to eight weeks.  He noted that this is a core team.  For each                                                               
of the organizations under study, the technical evaluation team is                                                              
rotated; various experts are pulled from various organizations                                                                  
within the Army in order to review the proposals for the DOL, DPW,                                                              
DCA, and DPTSM.  Mr. Bryant noted that pending approval, those will                                                             
be management studies rather than cost competition studies.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI commented that it is difficult to equate the state                                                               
structure in the executive branch with the structure illustrated on                                                             
the slide entitled, "SSEB Structure."  He understood the ultimate                                                               
authority in the Army to be the Commanding General.  In the state                                                               
structure, would that be the governor or a commissioner of one of                                                               
the departments.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT indicated that he didn't have enough background in                                                                   
Alaska's state structure and thus would hesitate to make a                                                                      
recommendation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES interjected that in the Army's structure the Commanding                                                              
General would be similar to a commissioner with regard to the                                                                   
number of people involved and horizontal dissimilar functions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT moved on to the next slide which included a definition                                                               
of privatization.  He informed the committee of some of the on-                                                                 
going utility and housing studies.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD turned to the subject of utilities and the                                                                        
deregulation of utilities.  He noted that he has heard discussion                                                               
that once a contractor takes over a utility and the other                                                                       
organization is dismantled, the new contractor can begin to                                                                     
increase the costs.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT said that he didn't believe so, because the cost has to                                                              
be amortized over many years.  He believed the cost had to be                                                                   
amortized for minimum of ten years.  He agreed with Co-Chair Ward                                                               
that if the power agreement went through, it would be a long-term                                                               
agreement.  Mr. Bryant stressed that the agreement would have to be                                                             
economical.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRYANT, in conclusion, stated that this process would make a                                                                
big impact on people and culture.  Therefore, caution should be                                                                 
taken and the process should be well planned.  He specified that                                                                
ASARAK's ultimate goal is mission performance that is, hopefully,                                                               
accompanied by some cost savings.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG informed the commission that he would now present                                                              
a portion of the briefing which was presented to the work force at                                                              
Fort Richardson and Fort Wainwright just as the study began.  This                                                              
is a director's perspective on what could be expected over the next                                                             
two to three years.  The presentation began with a slide indicating                                                             
that USARAK is now at war with potential commercial bidders and                                                                 
doesn't want to see a headline indicating hundreds of jobs lost.                                                                
The work force was told it would have to help identify what they do                                                             
in order to ensure that the PWS was reality.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI said that the problem is that all the information is                                                             
on USARAK's side, while the contractors would have to develop a bid                                                             
on the basis of the information put out in a request for contract.                                                              
All the analytical data available is within the expertise of the                                                                
work force.  Therefore, he asked how the private sector could                                                                   
compete with that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG clarified that the private sector would receive                                                                
everything developed.  He stressed that he wanted to make sure that                                                             
what is developed is what is actually performed in the directorate.                                                             
Everything written would be placed in the PWS which is provided to                                                              
each potential bidder.  The key is that the PWS is all inclusive.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD asked if Colonel Sandberg had found that employee's                                                               
tasks had not been identified to this point.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG replied that he didn't believe the tasks had been                                                              
fully documented.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY interjected that tasks are being performed that one                                                                 
doesn't realize he/she is doing.  There are also tasks that aren't                                                              
being performed which should be.  This process really fleshes out                                                               
the functions and those areas which aren't currently being                                                                      
performed which should be and should be included in the contract.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG pointed out that in order to do this process, the                                                              
employees had to be trained to some degree.  Each employee was told                                                             
that he/she must be brutally truthful in their tasks in order to                                                                
ensure that PWS covered their function appropriately.  Furthermore,                                                             
the employees were told to be brutally efficient.  Colonel Sandberg                                                             
said, "We [USARAK] have to be prepared to cut off an arm to save                                                                
the body."  He believed that everyone understood that not everyone                                                              
would remain on board at the conclusion of the study.  Therefore,                                                               
employees were asked to "think out of the box."  In response to Co-                                                             
Chair Ward, Colonel Sandberg clarified that every employee was told                                                             
this from the employee who received four hours of training to the                                                               
employee who received 30 hours of training.  He noted that through                                                              
each process a union representative sat through the training.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI observed that the employees would then receive two                                                               
bites at the apple.  First, the employee would get to compete for                                                               
his/her position and if the competition is won, the employee would                                                              
be fine.  If the employee looses the competition, that employee                                                                 
would have the first-right-of-refusal before the position goes to                                                               
the contractor.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG specified that would be correct to a certain                                                                   
level, certain management employees are not included in the right-                                                              
of-first-refusal.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY explained that those employees involved in the                                                                      
development of the in-house cost proposal, cost estimate, technical                                                             
proposal are precluded from being able to work for the contractor.                                                              
Therefore, the employees involved in the management study are                                                                   
restricted to those management employees whose jobs are not in the                                                              
commercial activities part of the directorate that will perform the                                                             
management study to completion.  Everyone is involved to a point,                                                               
after which people must be disconnected so as not to jeopardize                                                                 
their right-of-first-refusal.  The team completing the study                                                                    
becomes very small and very secretive.  The team develops the most                                                              
efficient organization and the in-house cost estimate.  Those few                                                               
folks are the only ones who have jeopardized the right-of-first-                                                                
refusal.  He noted that those folk's jobs were probably government                                                              
in nature to begin with and wouldn't be part of the contract - they                                                             
may be effected, but aren't in a competition.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG continued by saying that the end result was to                                                                 
allow the employees in his directorate to compete efficiently and                                                               
win this competition.  From the management standpoint, there is a                                                               
push toward getting the employees behind this as well as performing                                                             
the study properly.  All of which would provide the best chance for                                                             
competition.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY asked if a union member ends up working for a                                                                  
contractor who has prevailed in a competition, would that union                                                                 
member carry his benefit and retirement package.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG stated that all the government employees who have                                                              
the right-of-first-refusal to work for the contractor lose their                                                                
government status and become contractor employees.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY understood then that the employees know what the                                                               
contractor has to offer.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COLONEL SANDBERG agreed, but pointed out that the contractor has to                                                             
offer a competitive wage, according to the Davis Bacon wage which                                                               
is determined by local wages.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER reiterated that the right-of-first-refusal                                                              
doesn't apply to those on the management study team.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO surmised that unlike the Canadian system, this                                                             
system can fully justify outsourcing.  He asked if the presenters                                                               
felt confident that the results could be supported by                                                                           
documentation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY informed the commission that the end of this process is                                                             
a cost comparison which lays out the costs for both the contractor                                                              
and the government work force bid.  The government work force has                                                               
to perform the same steps as the contractor such as a writing a                                                                 
technical proposal and determination of the costs to perform the                                                                
contract.  After cost comparison, both parties can review each                                                                  
other's bid.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD asked if the same process would apply for a five year                                                             
contract with several reviews, when the governmental entity winning                                                             
the contract.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY said that when the governmental entity is awarded the                                                               
function, the review process would be slightly different because                                                                
the function would still be a government function.  The government                                                              
is not obliged to fulfill some of the requirements required of a                                                                
contractor from the private sector.  Mr. Endsley noted that there                                                               
is a review process performed by an internal firm which reviews the                                                             
governmental organization.  The firm reviews the governmental                                                                   
organization in order to ensure that it has organized as specified                                                              
and utilized the work force specified.  The costs are also                                                                      
reviewed.  Such a review occurs annually for the five year period.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH commented that thus far much of the discussion                                                              
has focused on the decision-making process.  He indicated his                                                                   
interest in implementation successes or failures in Alaska.  He                                                                 
recalled that in the mid 1980s, two major contracts were awarded                                                                
under A-76.  One contract was for the maintenance of the Kodiak                                                                 
Coast Guard Base and the other being a contract awarded to Brown                                                                
and Root(ph) for Army public works functions.  He asked if those                                                                
contractors remained and if not, what changes have occurred.                                                                    
Furthermore, he inquired as to the cost performance of those jobs                                                               
that were outsourced.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES addressed the Brown and Root(ph) contract for which he                                                               
was involved in the writing of the specifications of that contract                                                              
as well as the evaluation of contractor proposals.  That contract                                                               
wasn't a competitive sourcing action.  He explained that as the                                                                 
Defense Department drew down, decisions regarding how to reduce the                                                             
civilian work force were necessary.  The civilian work force had                                                                
become quite large at Fort Richardson and Fort Wainwright.  The                                                                 
determination was to package project-like work into a bundle.                                                                   
Large reductions in the work force were run because there wasn't                                                                
the funding available to pay those employees.  Therefore, a                                                                     
contract form solicitation, a task-order-type contract, was put                                                                 
out.  Brown and Root(ph) was the successful offerer.  The contract                                                              
included a base year plus five option years.  Mr. Toenes informed                                                               
the commission that since that time, the contract has been re-                                                                  
advertised and is now in the second full contract, near the end of                                                              
that term.  Therefore, Brown and Root(ph) has performed those                                                                   
functions for almost a decade.  Mr. Endsley commented that the                                                                  
result with Brown and Root(ph) has been excellent in all areas.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY asked if Brown and Root(ph) hired any of the                                                                   
employees who were performing the job before Brown and Root(ph) was                                                             
awarded the contract.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES replied no.  This contract wasn't covered under the                                                                  
commercial activities program nor did it precipitate the previously                                                             
mentioned legislation.  He explained that the work force had to be                                                              
reduced under any circumstances and an alternative had to be found                                                              
for those functions.  Therefore, the Brown and Root(ph) contract                                                                
wasn't a commercial activities review and didn't have the right-of-                                                             
first-refusal or any other features of the commercial activities                                                                
review.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH asked if there are any examples of use of the                                                               
A-76 by the Army in Alaska.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES informed the commission of one of the most disastrous                                                                
situations.  In 1975, a commercial activities study was put out on                                                              
the central heat and power plant at Fort Wainwright which was won                                                               
by a large utility provider.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-6, SIDE A                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES discussed how the contractor's staff left the plant.  He                                                             
informed the commission that twice now, there have been attempts                                                                
at individual function studies on refuse collection.  There have                                                                
not been responsive bidders on refuse collection.  Therefore,                                                                   
refuse collection is being bundled in the whole public works study.                                                             
He noted that no other DPW functions have gone to contract,                                                                     
primarily because of nonresponsive offerings.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER commented that perhaps, the Coast                                                                  
Guard could inform the committee of its experience with the A-76                                                                
project.  He noted that he was running a company that was going to                                                              
bid on the Kodiak Coast Guard project.  He discussed how that                                                                   
project was an emotional and difficult adjustment for Kodiak.                                                                   
Kodiak's experience could be instructive in reviewing functions in                                                              
remote areas, where there aren't many alternatives to the employee                                                              
structure.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARYANN PEASE, Chair, Privatization Subcommittee on the Department                                                              
of Revenue, asked if there is any preferred list of subcontractors                                                              
that expedites the process.  For example, is there a set of                                                                     
criteria or contractors that have applied and have been approved                                                                
and could automatically step in and take over a privatized                                                                      
function.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES pointed out that the aforementioned statutes would                                                                   
preclude automatic takeover, except under three very limited                                                                    
circumstances.  Those three circumstances are as follows:                                                                       
businesses owned by persons of which 51 percent are severely                                                                    
disabled persons, businesses owned by persons of which 51 percent                                                               
are blind, businesses owned by persons of which 51 percent Native                                                               
American corporations.  Those are the only exceptions to a cost                                                                 
comparison under the federal statute which is reenacted each year.                                                              
He reiterated that this year it is PL 105262 Section 8104.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE asked if once there is a cost comparison, is there then                                                               
a preferred subcontractor list.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES explained that the prime contractor who is the                                                                       
successful offerer puts together a package for evaluation which can                                                             
consist of subcontractors.  One of the source selection teams will                                                              
study the subcontractors.  However, the government doesn't have, in                                                             
its technical area or its contracting office, a list of preferred                                                               
subcontractors.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY noted that if one were looking for a list of companies                                                              
that do this, one could inquire of the purchasing officer as to who                                                             
bid on the last job.  Such information is public and a list of                                                                  
companies could be obtained in that manner.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI understood Mr. Toenes to have said that once a                                                                   
contract has been identified for competitive procurement, an Alaska                                                             
Native corporation could make a proposal and take it out of the                                                                 
competitive procurement process.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES clarified that there are some conditions attached in                                                                 
such a case.  The Commander would have to perform a study that                                                                  
would indicate that the Alaska Native corporation would likely                                                                  
produce the most cost effective solution.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD said that he had understood that the American Native                                                              
corporation had to be part of the original bid process.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES stated that he didn't know the answer to that.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER interjected that those exceptions would                                                                 
have to be early in the process.  Those exceptions were placed into                                                             
the Authorizing Act this past year.  He explained that if the                                                                   
process hasn't started yet, then those three exceptions would have                                                              
the first right.  He said that those exceptions wouldn't affect the                                                             
studies at USARAK.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
FRANK DILLON, Chair, Privatization Subcommittee on the Department                                                               
of Transportation and Public Facilities, indicated that the                                                                     
discussion had provided some clarification into the process which                                                               
may be useful in Alaska's efforts to privatize.  Mr. Dillon                                                                     
commented that his approach has been to only privatize if it makes                                                              
sense to do so.  He posed a situation in which the task was to                                                                  
change light bulbs.  He asked, "Is the mission, in other words                                                                  
changing the light bulb, what you look at when the contractor bids                                                              
on it or what people [employees] are telling you it takes to change                                                             
that light bulb.  ...is being busy what you're looking for or                                                                   
getting the mission accomplished?"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY explained that a contract would be written that                                                                     
specifies the light bulbs have to be changed or rather that light                                                               
has to be provided within a specific time frame.  Then a management                                                             
study would review that, go to the work force, and determine the                                                                
most efficient manner to provide light.  That review could find                                                                 
that changing the light bulb may take 15 minutes due to some things                                                             
imposed by management.  Therefore, the team would determine what                                                                
could be changed in order to allow the light bulb to be changed in                                                              
three minutes rather than 15 minutes.  That would become the                                                                    
organization's bid.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH commented that the PWS is terribly important,                                                               
from the contractor's standpoint, because that is what is being bid                                                             
upon.  If the employees didn't define all the work, the                                                                         
contractor's bidding on the statement could have the competitive                                                                
advantage.  He stated, "The importance of defining the work that is                                                             
to be done is the element that protects the existing employees from                                                             
the contractor whose looking for a leverage or looking for an                                                                   
opportunity."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER(COLONEL SANDBERG) posed a situation in                                                                  
which the employee says that light must be provided, but doesn't                                                                
note that every time the light bulb is changed it must be recorded                                                              
in order to capture the cost of the bulbs.  In such a situation,                                                                
the contractor will not record when the light bulb is changed and                                                               
won't capture the cost.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER(MR. BRYANT) informed the commission that                                                                
Colonel Brandt, the head of commercial activities studies for the                                                               
Army, performed a postmortem regarding why the private industry                                                                 
wants some of those competitions.  He discovered that about 80                                                                  
percent of the time there were poorly written PWS.  Therefore, it                                                               
is critical to provide the detail of a function.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES noted that USARAK has guidelines, a booklet produced by                                                              
the Army, based on very sound industrial engineering techniques.                                                                
There are detailed work load analyses which allow the individual                                                                
motions and activities of each function.  Those are cataloged in a                                                              
formalized fashion and distilled into a PWS.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO echoed the importance of identifying that work                                                             
in order to determine the costs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY noted that he has been in the contracting business                                                             
and reviewed the specs closely.  If a road job is being performed,                                                              
and contaminated soil is found then those costs are negotiated.  He                                                             
didn't know any other way to deal with such a situation.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HENRI referred to the profiles that refer to the manpower                                                                   
required for a job; is that a time-in-motion study?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES explained that a time-in-motion study would be one type                                                              
of those activity analyses.  Additionally, every single activity                                                                
performed by an employee must be collected which is accomplished                                                                
through group meetings.  Specialist then review it to determine if                                                              
there are any steps missing.  He said that it ultimately becomes                                                                
time-in-motion type studies when costing each activity.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JAN FREDRICKS(ph), Small  Business Development Center, University                                                               
of Alaska, understood that the Brown and Root(ph) contract wasn't                                                               
an-76 contract.  She said that it sounded as if there were                                                                      
specifications for use of local business, small and disadvantaged                                                               
businesses.  However, she understood the A-76 guidelines to have no                                                             
criteria at all with regards to local preferences or                                                                            
subcontractors.  She asked if, included in the study, there is any                                                              
study on the affect to the local economy.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER stated that socioeconomic factors are not                                                               
a decision factor in these studies.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREDRICKS(ph) commented that the state may have different                                                                   
concerns when using such a model for the state.  After the 24                                                                   
months to complete the study, how long does it take to reach the                                                                
release of the solicitation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY clarified that the release of the solicitation is                                                                   
included in the 24 months.  The 24 months takes the process to the                                                              
point of cost comparison.  The award is made on the day of cost                                                                 
comparison when the bids are opened.  He noted that there is a                                                                  
transition period of up to six months.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER interjected that after the initial cost                                                                 
comparison, the appeal process begins.  Once the appeal process is                                                              
completed, the transition period begins.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ANDRE McCLOUD(ph) asked if the detail of the work load analysis is                                                              
necessary or can the various objectives and mission statements of                                                               
the departments dictate that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOENES stated that the contractors will base their bid on the                                                               
details of the services.  He pointed out that in addition to the                                                                
PWS, there will be a performance requirement summary which details                                                              
what is a successful completion of that element of the PWS.  He                                                                 
referred to the aforementioned detail of the lawn mowing function                                                               
as presented in the slide presentation.  Mr. Toenes didn't know of                                                              
an alternative to the detail.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH commented that performance standards are                                                                    
valuable.  In the example where the function was to provide                                                                     
illumination, that contractor could by choice replace all the light                                                             
bulbs on a schedule on the same night.  Performance standards have                                                              
a very definite place in certain functions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI observed that the PWS seems to be the lion's share                                                               
of the work.  He recalled that one of the slides said that PWS was                                                              
revised in 18 of 53 competitions, within 15 months after the award                                                              
of the contract.  What happens when the changes in the PWS change                                                               
the economics of it?                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER said that in such instances perhaps                                                                     
everything involved in the function wasn't captured or maybe there                                                              
was some unknown such as contaminated soil.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY noted that those PWS changes were major and significant                                                             
changes.  He indicated that the changes were, perhaps, rewrites of                                                              
the PWSs.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI asked if a competitive procurement would be reversed                                                             
if changes to the PWS were significant.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENDSLEY said that he believed that it would have to be appealed                                                             
in order to reverse the competitive procurement.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD thanked the guests for bringing clarity to the                                                                    
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR COWDERY complimented the guests and staff on their                                                                     
preparedness.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI announced that a revised schedule is being proposed.                                                             
After the next scheduled meeting, October 20, 1999, the commission                                                              
would meet weekly through November because the subcommittee reports                                                             
will begin to appear.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WARD announced that his staff would contact the Canadian                                                               
government with regard to their privatization efforts.  That                                                                    
information will be distributed to all commissioners.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. PIGNALBERI pointed out that the commission's packet should                                                                  
include an interim status report which may stimulate discussion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER WUERCH referred to page 2 of the "Interim Status                                                                   
Report" and highlighted the statement:  "..it is somewhat amazing                                                               
that most departments cannot relate their expenditures of money,                                                                
manhours and resources to specific work tasks that fulfill their                                                                
mission."  Today's presentation stressed the importance of a PWS.                                                               
Perhaps, the PWS process should be adopted as mandatory, before any                                                             
new employees are added to the state payroll.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VALESKO noted that he is a former employee of the                                                                  
Department of Highways and Transportation.  He related his                                                                      
experience in having to detail the routes and equipment utilized in                                                             
his job.  The detail can go over board and leave a frustrated                                                                   
employee and an increased office staff.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the commission, the                                                                      
Commission on Privatization and Delivery of Government Services                                                                 
meeting was adjourned at an unspecified time.                                                                                   

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